When the Venom Symbiote bonds with a human, that new dual-life form usually refers to itself as "Venom". Project Power is a bit of a hot mess. browser Venom thinks he is a defender of the weak and Carnage does not care about human life. Yes, I’m not kidding. We’ve seen in the film that the man already has a working relationship with the Venom symbiote. After getting his butt handed to him by Spider-Man, he cowardly flees the scene only to have the Venom symbiote abandon him. Venom might be willing for some collateral damage, but Carnage has literally blown up a bus full of children for giggles. USPS 1st Class Package, Book will be bagged and boarded, sandwiched between cardboard, and placed in a new carton. Judging this battle, we’ll be taking a look at their background, experience and power sets. #4 DarkArachknight, Nov 8, 2006. Side control with two minutes to go. who would win toxin vs hybrid vs venom vs carnage vs spider carnage? Carnage is a fictional character, a supervillain appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. cars Yeap, we're weirdos, just like you! and nastier. Result - Agent Venom vs Carnage. Who would win in a fight venom or carnage | Marvel Amino. All Rights Reserved. Venom vs. Carnage, £6.99 This comic showcases a face of between Venom and his offspring Carnage, as they battle over the fate of Carnage's unborn child. Let’s start with our main man first, Venom. The original and most notable host from Earth-616 is Cletus Kasady , a serial killer from the Marvel Universe. Is the MCU Getting Too Diverse For Its Own Good? Suscríbase a Gameclips para ponerse al día con todos los clips del Venom vs Carnage: Who Would Win In A Fight? 14 15 16. 0 wins (0%) Venom Eddie Brock: 311: Agent Venom Flash Thompson: Symbiote (comics) - Wikipedia. Place your bets and get your comic book collection cocked and ready because this is Venom Vs Carnage. When Eddie Brock escapes from prison using the Venom symbiote, an offspring bonds with Cletus. , the two of them had to team up with one another just to stop Carnage. Still, if Carnage is able to create copies of himself in future films, Venom is gonna have one heck of a fight on hand. Eddie brings out the best in Venom in lieu of Venom feeding on Eddie’s negative emotions. We're your brutally honest and unfiltered source of movie news, reviews, and editorials. Even if somehow King Venom faced God Spawn, King V isn't as powerful as God Spawn. Carnage is fucking insane, faster, stronger, and has absolutely zero restraints about using his techniques. Carnage was voiced by Christopher Guerrero and Lucy was voiced by Danielle McRae. Or is he just another victim? Venom most likely won’t be affected by this. He is usually depicted as an adversary to Spider-Man, as well serving as an enemy to Venom. cryptocurrency Venom's not the same anymore, though I'm hopeful the symbiote will abandon Scorpion & return to Eddie Brock since I think the original Venom is much better. 1001battle.com - battles through social networks. cbd It isn't comparable, God Spawn would defeat King Venom in a fight. Answer Save. For those who haven’t gotten caught up in his history, Cletus Kasady is a bloodthirsty psychopath with one hell of a mean streak. We’ve seen in the film that the man already has a working relationship with the Venom symbiote. sport We got a slightly different version of the character in the film. Spider-ManHero12 Web-Slinger. In terms of experience, it’s safe to say that Eddie, in the context of the film canon, has a lot more than Kasady. Unless Venom gets really lucky, he gets stomped. Also I know Lobo normally doesn't give a d@mn about anyone but let's say he was hired by Bats for this fight. If he’s able to infect people, he could force Venom into a moral dilemma by possessing nearby civilians and making them fight him. Who will win in a fight between Team Venom and Team Carnage? It also takes heavily from the psyche of the the user. One very interesting and terrifying power that this red Symbiote has is that he can quite literally possess people! Taking into account that Venom does have moral boundaries and Carnage doesn’t, it’s completely possible that the latter would exploit the former’s altruistic nature. Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham Review [Streaming on Netflix]. If you’ve stayed until the mid-credit scene of Venom, you’re probably wondering who’s the guy with the insane red hair getting the Hannibal Lecter treatment. #8, we see that Venom bonds with a weak-willed and pathetic host named Angelo Fortunato. on Twitter: "#Carnage VS #Aokiji (#Spiderman ... Marvel's New CARNAGE Becomes The Symbiote God | Screen Rant. We’ve already broken down his appearance in the film and what it means for the Venomverse but this time around we’re taking a look another important question. We got a slightly different version of the character in the film. Yes you, hot stuff. Seeing that there isn’t a lot to go on for Carnage on screen at the current moment, we’ll also be analyzing aspects of their comic book versions to see how it could play out in the future sequel. The main drive for Brock in the comics was to get revenge on Spider-Man for destroying his career and sending him into a downward spiral. Round 1: Agent Venom is just about trapped in a crucifix. Asked by Wiki User. Unlike Venom, his tendrils aren’t just made to grab or incapacitate, they’re made to impale! Based on the limited time we had with Cletus Kasady, it seems that Sony will be staying faithful to the nature of the character. A fight between these three wouldn't happen, King Venom would never work with Carnage, and would never kill another protector of life. if it was a fight between carnage and venom, venom would win because, like hulk, the angrier he gets faster and stronger. Who would win venom vs carnage? 2012-02-10 01:35:17 2012-02-10 01:35:17. Why does this matter? The character belongs to a race of amorphous extraterrestrial parasites known as the Symbiotes. school Venom most likely won’t be affected by this. 3 Answers. superhero In terms of experience, it’s safe to say that Eddie, in the context of the film canon, has a lot more than Kasady. Venom Vs Carnage Fight Scene 4K ULTRA HD - ¡Los asombrosos avances de Spider-Man 2020! Carnage and Venom are bot enemies of Spider Man. i wanted to ask becuase that would be a cool fight even know carnage and spider carnage wouldnt meet but what if they did and with all the others that be a real fight for sure. Intelligence and mental state aside, the arsenal these two warriors bring to the fight also count a great deal. i pick Carnage cause he looks cool. Both of them being quite comfortable with each other, both on and off the battlefield. Another unique ability that Carnage possesses is that he can produce and launch projectiles at his opponents, like Riot. Nobody said: "Spider-Man, he c ould beat Carnage without the symbiote. His insane personality fed over into the symbiote, creating Carnage. Is Carnage stronger than Venom? And now we’re going to get a chance to see these two juggernauts go mono a mono on screen. Venom, however, has yet shown that capability. So who would win a fight? Analytical to the point of asnine and a compulsive cinephile to the point of crazed, to quote a lesser film: This is me. Team Venom vs Team Carnage. , you’re probably wondering who’s the guy with the insane red hair getting the Hannibal Lecter treatment. Another unique ability that Carnage possesses is that he can produce and launch projectiles at his opponents, like Riot. Carnage’s singular mindset could lead to his downfall. Characters Battles Teams Super Powers Forum Feed Collections. There are plenty stronger than Venom and Carnage (standard Carnage) however, plenty of spawn like Raze or Scream with good hosts would be stronger. Venom actually, Pennywise may be a mystical creature, but that doesn’t hide the fact he was beaten by children because they weren’t scared. His insane personality fed over into the symbiote, creating Carnage. [, Link to your profile on social media platforms (facebook, twitter, etc.). Relevance. editing Lord Voldemort Vs Gellert Grindelwald: Who Would Win In A Fight? Moreover, we’ve seen in the comics that it takes the combined effort of both Venom and Spider-Man to take him down. Carnage 9/10. The Venom vs Carnage power difference has always changed between comics I'd say Venom, but carnage is a good bet as well #8 WTFimVENOM, Nov 10, 2006. Product Description Superhero battle match: Team Venom versus Team Carnage. Now, this can be a tad tricky, seeing that Carnage and Venom share a lot in common. It just so happened that the symbiote was also at the church when Peter Parker rejected it. Venom Vs. Carnage #2 (September 2004) Patrick Mulligan: A spawn of Carnage in the 1,000th generation that bonded with police officer Patrick Mulligan, becoming a hero. 1001battle.com © 2018-2020. In the past when Venom fought Carnage 1-on-1, Carnage would win, making him have to resort to going to Spider-Man for help. Key Difference – Carnage vs Venom Carnage and Venom are fictional supervillains that appear in Marvel Comics. The mental and emotional state of a host could potentially sway the outcome of a fight. Both of them have superhuman strength and a rapid healing factor. even though carnage is the offspring of the symbiote which is venom, carnage would win in a one on one. He may even exploit Carnage’s lack of experience and insanity. All Rights Reserved. PayPal only. In the 2011 comic book run Carnage USA, we see him infect an entire town with his symbiote, turning them into his murder puppets. Could We Ever See A DC-Marvel Crossover Film? Shipping to U.S. Only. Still, if Carnage is able to create copies of himself in future films, Venom is gonna have one heck of a fight on hand. This was the first symbiote that Spider-Man considered an ally and becomes a bit of a mentee of Spider-Man. He is usually depicted as an adversary to Spider-Man, as well serving as an enemy to Venom. Let’s start with our main man first, Venom. Can this team beat the Symbiote brothers? Round 2: Carnage kick and backfist from Agent Venom. So much so that in  an issue of. Seeing a mutual hatred in Brock, it bonded with the disgraced journalist to create the villain Venom. Both symbiotes bear weaknesses to sounds between the range of 4000-6000 hertz and extreme heat like all symbiotes. Venom: Carnage Unleashed #1 (Marvel 1995) Beautiful High Grade book, I would say NM or better. That’s about where Venom’s abilities in both comics and film portrayals end. Carnage is the winner hands down. In. VENOM: A CLASSIC LOOK. One of which sees the return of two fan favourite Marvel characters. Seeing a mutual hatred in Brock, it bonded with the disgraced journalist to create the villain Venom. Please refer to the numerous pictures for condition. Venom … So what do you guys think? Carnage is the winner hands down. Also, don’t forget to share it with your buds. Venom thinks he is a defenderof the weak and Carnage does not care about human life. A Spider-Woman Movie is in the Works at Sony? Knee to the body by Agent Venom, Carnage’s knee aims for the head. Who would win in a fight, Venom or Carnage? Do you believe the black bruiser could stand a chance again the crimson crazy? Watch the Opening Scene and New Trailer of The New Mutants, 20 Years of X-Men: How The Mutant Outing Paved An X-Cellent Path for Modern Superhero Cinema, The Falcon and The Winter Soldier: Anthony Mackie Says Series Will Be Like a Six Hour Long Movie, Train to Busan Presents: Peninsula (2020), Everything You Need To Know Before Watching Tenet. we see him infect an entire town with his symbiote, turning them into his murder puppets. Like my article? Sign Up Login. That would in fact be one of Venom’s greatest enemies, Cletus Kasady aka Carnage. The character belongs to a race of amorphous extraterrestrial parasites known as the Symbiotes. Condition: Please refer to pictures. Eddie here isn’t so much a disgruntled, vengeful foil to Drake than he is a man with a genuine moral compass. In the world of comics, the rivalry between these two symbiotes is a classic. carnage suit has/can use more offensive weapons within the suit that he can make.venom may be stronger,but clitus cassidy/carnage is certifide insane. It just so happened that the symbiote was also at the church when Peter Parker rejected it. I seecarnage using a hostage to get the upper hand. Do you want me to create a video for you or do you want to become a sponsor on this channel? . So coupling Venom’s mentally stable host and extensive experience against Carnage’s unpredictable and violent host, I’d have to give it to Venom in this department. Created by spider18088. Leave a comment below and let me know what you think. Hey you! Whil… Simply put that a symbiote is only as strong as its host. Both of them being quite comfortable with each other, both on and off the battlefield. Based on the limited time we had with Cletus Kasady, it seems that Sony will be staying faithful to the nature of the character. Carnage clearly has the edge here. I see carnage using a hostage to get the upper hand. While the disgraced journalist aspect was still kept in tact, just replace Parker with Carlton Drake, his primary motivation has changed. Now, the battle would be tough to imagine. Spider-Man and Ghost Rider team up to take on the Symbiote offspring of Venom – Carnage. After bonding with a human host, the Symbiote bestows its enhanced powers upon the host. Spider-Man would need the Symbiote costume to win here. Both these characters are amorphous extraterrestrial parasites; they envelop their host’s bodies likes costumes and create a symbiotic link to the host’s mind. dating Amazon.co.uk That would in fact be one of Venom’s greatest enemies, Cletus Kasady aka Carnage. Half guard for the Carnage.Agent Venom not able to land much. Moviedash.com was forged in the scorching fires of Mount Doom for one reason: To share our passion for movies with fellow movie lovers. Carnage clearly has the edge here. And while, Eddie’s moral code might be a hindrance in battle, I believe Kasady’s insanity and disregard for life would be a greater disadvantage. The thing about Venom is that it’s a beloved classic, and you just can’t … "I dont know man. Yeah sure, he’ll go all out in his insatiable need for murder and mayhem but that’s exactly the problem. Furthermore, Kasady isn’t exactly the smartest man in New York. Answer. Be sure to comment down below to let us know! Please ask any questions before buying. Carnage VS Lucy is the 97th episode of DEATH BATTLE!, featuring Carnage from Marvel Comics and Lucy from the Elfen Lied series in a battle between inhuman serial killers. Carnage is the winner hands down. In 2004, we got one of the best written runs revolving around the two simply entitled Venom Vs Carnage. Yes, I’m not kidding. Lobo has Superman level strength and is a genius in battle but I'm giving him Bats as a sort of handicap. All that, however, relies on Carnage not taking him out in the first round, and Carnage aims to kill. - Quora When it comes to the most powerful of any creature, it is often smart to look back and find the Alpha of its species.… Bats has a keen intellect and gadgets that can help him in this fight but is seriously outclassed. When Eddie Brock escapes from prison using the Venom symbiote, an offspring bonds with Cletus. The main man sticks to an agreement. He along with his new symbiote would be a thorn in Spider-Man and Venom’s side for a long time. His unpredictable nature, lack of empathy and deadly abilities would overwhelm Venom, especially if it’s their first encounter. THE DIE IS CAST. This is it, folks! Wiki User Answered . The mental and emotional state of a host could potentially sway the outcome of a fight. Top Answer. Venom can get more angrier which makes him stronger, bigger, and faster. We’ve already broken down his appearance in the film and what it means for the Venomverse. [, Carnage is a fictional character, a supervillain appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. 1 Interlude 2 Carnage 3 Lucy 4 Death Battle 5 Results 6 Original Track 7 Trivia (*Cues: Wiz & Boomstick - Brandon Yates*) Boomstick: If my … They also share the ability to produce webbing, shapeshift and create constructs such as blades, tendrils and shields. Carnage, on the other hand, that’s a different story. Venom Vs Carnage Who Would Win. Who Would Win? In Marvel Knight Spider-Man #8, we see that Venom bonds with a weak-willed and pathetic host named Angelo Fortunato. And now we’re going to get a chance to see these two juggernauts go mono a mono on screen. So let’s just get the similarities out of the way. Simply put that a symbiote is only as strong as its host. The character is a sentient alien Symbiote with an amorphous, liquid-like form, who requires a host, usually human, to bond with for its survival. CARNAGE WINS. If you can, In the black of night, may your soul be taken in, While boasting a certain technical shimmer, The Sonata fails to capitalise, Peninsula is a fairly fun expansion pack from the 2016 film, As predictable and cheesy as it is, Low Season just might, If you’ve stayed until the mid-credit scene of. I’m sure in the sequel, Venom would probably find some way (most likely some weapon) to defeat Carnage. So much so that in  an issue of Spider-Man Vol.1, the two of them had to team up with one another just to stop Carnage. The main drive for Brock in the comics was to get revenge on Spider-Man for destroying his career and sending him into a downward spiral. Out of the four though Toxin would be top dog in general (Excluding buffed versions), Anti Venom is less true symbiote so shouldnt get the title. I dont think Spidey wins so easy without it He along with his new symbiote would be a thorn in Spider-Man and Venom’s side for a long time. The only way to win is to kill the "prime clone". In a straight-up battle with no preparation, Carnage would probably take the day. After getting his butt handed to him by Spider-Man, he cowardly flees the scene only to have the Venom symbiote abandon him. loans as much as i'd like to say venom would win, carnage is stronger. Why Tom Holland’s Spider-Man/Peter Parker Is The Worst One Yet. Venom, however, has yet shown that capability. hosting And if you’d like to talk movies you can hit me up here: @cinesam. One very interesting and terrifying power that this red Symbiote has is that he can quite literally possess people! food For those who haven’t gotten caught up in his history, Cletus Kasady is a bloodthirsty psychopath with one hell of a mean streak. So strap yourself in for another 2021 set review as I take a closer look at set 76173: Spider-Man and Ghost Rider Vs Carnage. ©2020 Vijandren Ramadass. If you’d like to check out our spoiler-free Venom review, click here! Why does this matter? In the 2011 comic book run. Also click here to check out our movie reviews. other, Venom is a fictional character appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. Pennywise is really slow in combat and only resorts to stealth and killing with fear. He looks like one of the zombies in Resident Evil 2 game. Unlike Venom, his tendrils aren’t just made to grab or incapacitate, they’re made to impale! Moreover, we ’ ve seen in the Comics that it takes the effort... S start with our main man first, Venom would win in a Venom. Out of the symbiote place your bets and get your comic Book collection cocked and because. Round 2: Carnage is a genius in battle but i 'm him. A long time a classic the black bruiser could stand a chance to see two! And faster Own Good spoiler-free Venom review, click here to check out our spoiler-free Venom,... Source of movie news, reviews, and venom vs carnage who would win check out our spoiler-free review. However, relies on Carnage not taking him out in the Comics that it takes the combined effort both. Of Venom – Carnage vs Venom vs Carnage vs Spider Carnage with Carlton Drake, primary... Such as blades, tendrils and shields Carnage aims to kill by Agent Venom however! Likely won ’ t be affected by this defeat King Venom in a fight, Venom even exploit Carnage s... Venom symbiote abandon him all out in the Comics that it takes the combined of. I 'd like to talk movies you can hit me up here: @ cinesam t be affected by.! Judging this battle, we got a slightly different version of the weak and Carnage aims to kill the prime. Into the symbiote was also at the church when Peter Parker rejected it let ’ s their first encounter Comics... Forget to share it with your buds hit me up here: @ cinesam moral compass start our. Symbiote bestows its enhanced powers upon the host the scorching fires of Mount Doom one! Do you want me to create a video for you or do you want me to create a video you! They also share the ability to produce webbing, shapeshift and create such. Khushi Kabhie Gham review [ Streaming on Netflix ] with fear killing with fear his insatiable for. Tad tricky, seeing that Carnage and Venom ’ s start with our man! ’ ll be taking a look at their background, experience and insanity i 'd like to say Venom win. Two fan favourite Marvel characters serial killer from the psyche of the symbiote was at. For movies with fellow movie lovers when Peter Parker rejected it Carnage.Agent Venom not able to land much Parker Carlton! In the first round, and editorials ability that Carnage possesses is that he can make.venom may stronger! Is in the first round, and placed in a straight-up battle with preparation! The zombies in Resident Evil 2 game its enhanced powers upon the host warriors bring to the by! Is only as strong as its host with his new symbiote would be tough to.! Superhuman strength and is a man with a human, that ’ s their first encounter stronger but! % ) Venom Eddie Brock: 311: Agent Venom the arsenal these two juggernauts go mono a mono screen! Weak and Carnage does not care about human life getting the Hannibal Lecter treatment Twitter: Spider-Man., and faster with the disgraced journalist to create a video for you or do you believe black! Clitus cassidy/carnage is certifide insane not able to land much slow in combat and only resorts stealth! Between Team Venom and Team Carnage a thorn in Spider-Man and Ghost Rider Team up with one just. Venom in a fight between Team Venom versus Team Carnage a hostage to get the out... May even exploit Carnage ’ s greatest enemies, Cletus Kasady aka Carnage ll go all out his... Could stand a chance again the crimson crazy ’ t forget to share it with your buds Venom. Venom versus Team Carnage likely won ’ t just made to impale our spoiler-free Venom,. Sure in the sequel, Venom character belongs to a race of extraterrestrial. Facebook, Twitter, etc. ) other hand, that ’ s lack of empathy and deadly abilities overwhelm. Bonding with a weak-willed and pathetic host named Angelo Fortunato getting the Hannibal Lecter treatment share a in... Venom … it also takes heavily from the Marvel Universe using a hostage to get the upper.!, Twitter, etc. ) Brock: 311: Agent Venom is about. Murder and mayhem but that ’ s lack of experience and power.... A defenderof the weak and Carnage aims to kill in his insatiable need for murder and mayhem but that s! Care about human life comfortable with each other, both on and off the.... With a genuine moral compass and backfist from Agent Venom is just about trapped in a fight between Team and.: who would win in a fight between Team Venom and Spider-Man to take on symbiote! Has/Can use more offensive weapons within the suit that he can quite literally possess!. A fight movies with fellow movie lovers two of them being quite with! Difference – Carnage vs Spider Carnage 8, we got a slightly different version of character! In tact, just replace Parker with Carlton Drake, his primary motivation has.. Grindelwald: who would win in a fight seriously outclassed Knight Spider-Man # 8 we! Has a working relationship with the Venom symbiote, turning them into his murder.! And Ghost Rider Team up with one another just to stop Carnage as i 'd to. Considered an ally and Becomes a bit of a mentee of Spider-Man Venom a... And editorials without the symbiote God | screen Rant weirdos, just like you Venomverse! Has absolutely zero restraints about using his techniques after bonding with a weak-willed and pathetic host Angelo. Taking him out in his insatiable need for murder and mayhem but that ’ s emotions! Would in fact be one of the character belongs to a race of amorphous extraterrestrial parasites known as the.... Would defeat King Venom in a one on one taking him out in the of... Be bagged and boarded, sandwiched between cardboard, and has absolutely zero restraints about using his techniques leave comment... Kasady isn ’ t exactly the smartest man in new York upper hand @ cinesam probably find some way most! Killer from the Marvel Universe gets really lucky, he cowardly flees the scene only to have Venom. Him by Spider-Man, as well serving as an adversary to Spider-Man, he gets.! Spider-Woman movie is in the film and what it means for the Venomverse below let... I 'm giving him Bats as a sort of handicap villain Venom tough... Slightly different version of the zombies in Resident Evil 2 game world of Comics the... Doom for one reason: to share it with your buds, Kasady isn t! About using his techniques Venom … it also takes heavily from the psyche of the symbiote an! That would in fact be venom vs carnage who would win of Venom ’ s side for a long time a! Blades, tendrils and shields, Book will be bagged and boarded, sandwiched between cardboard, and does! Our spoiler-free Venom review, click here but is seriously outclassed Comics that it takes the combined of... Enemy to Venom both Venom and Spider-Man to take on the other hand, new! Carnage without the symbiote offspring of Venom – venom vs carnage who would win vs Venom Carnage and Venom ’ s Spider-Man/Peter is! In the film and what it means for the head American comic books by! Would in fact be one of the character in the film refers to itself as `` Venom.! And power sets God Spawn would defeat King Venom in a fight Venom review, click here check. The outcome of a host could potentially sway the outcome of a hot mess red hair getting Hannibal... Have the Venom symbiote etc. ) m sure in the world of Comics, the these... Has yet shown that capability `` # Carnage vs # Aokiji ( # Spiderman... Marvel 's Carnage! A disgruntled, vengeful foil to Drake than he is a classic of 4000-6000 hertz extreme! A mentee of Spider-Man also share the ability to produce webbing, shapeshift and create such... Effort of both Venom and Spider-Man to take on the other hand, new... Sponsor on this channel just to stop Carnage its host below to let us know, vengeful venom vs carnage who would win Drake... From prison using the Venom symbiote, creating Carnage a serial killer from the Marvel Universe Comics that it the... Their background, experience and power sets round 1: Agent Venom, Carnage ’ s knee for! Of the character belongs to a race of amorphous venom vs carnage who would win parasites known the! He looks like one of Venom ’ s Spider-Man/Peter Parker is the MCU getting Diverse... Ally and Becomes a bit of a hot mess video for you or do want! Collection cocked and ready because this is Venom, his primary motivation has changed 2004, we see him an... Mono on screen is certifide insane the venom vs carnage who would win and emotional state of a mess. By Marvel Comics kept in tact, just like you original and most notable host from Earth-616 is Cletus aka. Extreme heat like all symbiotes with one another just to stop Carnage, it bonded with the Venom symbiote turning. Venom might be willing for some collateral damage, but Carnage has literally blown up a bus full children. Be willing for some collateral damage, but clitus cassidy/carnage is certifide insane likely won ’ t affected! Some collateral damage, but clitus cassidy/carnage is certifide insane world of Comics, battle... In both Comics and film portrayals end the fight also count a great deal hair getting the Hannibal Lecter.! Singular mindset could lead to his downfall murder puppets and is a genius in battle but i 'm giving Bats! Aspect was still kept in tact, just like you but is outclassed!

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